When Two Superpowers Meet: A Conversation With Nicholas Burns

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  I'm Dan Kurtz-Felan, and this is the Foreign Affairs Interview.

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  And I've always thought, and certainly confirmed by my years in China, it's structural.

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  This competition, no matter who 's in power in Washington and in Beijing in the future,

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  I think we 're going to be stuck with this highly competitive relationship for well more than a decade to come.

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  Not long ago, it was practically a truism to say that a hard line on China was the only real

• 00:28

  bipartisan position in American foreign policy.

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  To the extent such a consensus ever existed, Donald Trump has upended it in his second term,

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  leaving considerable uncertainty about just what he wants to achieve when he travels to China to meet with Xi Jinping

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  this week and what Xi hopes to achieve in return.

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  To make sense of how the Chinese are approaching the summit and what options U.S. Policymakers have,

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  I spoke to Nick Burns, a longtime American diplomat who served as ambassador to China until January of 2025.

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  For this special bonus episode recorded on Thursday,

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  May 7th, we discuss the issues that will take center stage when Trump meets Xi from trade and technology to Iran,

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  Ukraine, and Taiwan, and the enormous stakes for U.S.-China competition going forward.

• 01:17

  Nick, thanks for joining me again.

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  I think you were last on the podcast as you were packing up in Beijing just a few days before coming home

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  after your almost four years there as ambassador.

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  That's right.

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  And Dan, I enjoyed our interviews then, but a lot has happened in the 15 months since I left China and a very important,

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  I think, summit meeting coming up in Beijing between President Trump and President Xi.

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