A Defense of U.S. Intervention in Venezuela

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• 00:02

  From New York Times opinion, I'm Ross Douthat.

• 00:06

  And this is Interesting Times.

• 00:25

  What is actually happening in Venezuela?

• 00:29

  Is it a real regime chain?

• 00:31

  A cynical attempt to replace one dictatorship with another?

• 00:34

  An even more cynical grab for oil revenue?

• 00:37

  A Trumpian break with past U.S.

• 00:40

  Policymaking?

• 00:41

  Or just Yankee imperialism as usual?

• 00:45

  My guest this week helped make US foreign policy toward Latin America under three different Republican presidents,

• 00:51

  Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush, and in Donald Trump's first term.

• 00:56

  He's intimately familiar with coups and civil wars and successful transitions to democracy.

• 01:03

  And he's long been an advocate of overthrowing Nicolás Maduro, but maybe not overthrowing him this way.

• 01:13

  Elliot Abrams, welcome to Interesting Times.

• 01:16

  Thank you.

• 01:17

  So we're just going to jump right in, though I should actually mention that we are recording this on a Tuesday morning.

• 01:25

  Ideally, the episode will appear relatively quickly,

• 01:28

  but obviously we're talking about events that are very much in flux,

• 01:32

  and there's always a possibility that the landscape will have shifted even in 24 to 48 hours.

• 01:38

  So listeners should bear that in mind.

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