How the New Middle East Was Made with Simon Sebag Montefiore

Last week I had the privilege of sitting down with one of the foremost historians of our time, Simon Sebag Montefiore. As I write this, his work has never felt more urgent. “We’re in a new world of counterhistory,” he said recently. “A new world of counterhistory where neither historical facts nor present-time facts matter if they don’t fit the ideological orthodoxy.” It is “our responsibility as historians,” he said, “to stand up and be unafraid to contradict conventional wisdom, surging conspiracies, witch hunts, purity tests, pile-ons that are used to crush debate . . . and to say persuasively, ‘This is what happened.’ ” And that is what he does in his brilliant new book, The Cauldron: The Making of the Modern Middle East. But don’t worry. This is Sebag. I promise you this is not some serious, dry textbook. There is a chapter in his book called “Fat F****r” (which was the CIA’s code name for King Farouk of Egypt). You will learn in his pages that a Palestine Liberation Organization terrorist was married to a Miss Universe. That Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi and President John F. Kennedy were both johns at Madame Claude’s Parisian brothel. And that Saddam Hussein was raised by an uncle who wrote a pamphlet titled “Three Whom God Should Not Have Created: Persians, Jews, and Flies.” Okay, maybe that last one was predictable. Sebag has said that this book is the hardest he has ever written, and is a subject that only someone “bonkers” would tackle. Bonkers or brilliant or both: You’ll decide. Sebag is, of course, the author of over a dozen other books such as Stalin: The Court of the Red Tsar, The Romanovs, and Catherine the Great & Potemkin, which are essential to understanding power, politics, revolution, dictatorships, and above all, human nature. I asked him how he makes sense of the fight within Islam itself, why we’re so fixated on this region, whether the Middle East’s plight is the product of Western intervention or the choices of its own leaders, how the Gulf States came to ally with Israel and Iran with China and Russia, who is winning the current war, and much more. I am so thrilled to share the conversation I had with him—live—in NYC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices