666. This Is How Progress Happens

六六六。这就是进步发生的方式

Freakonomics Radio

2026-03-06

53 分钟
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单集简介 ...

Economists don’t usually talk about “culture.” But Joel Mokyr argues that it’s the engine of innovation — and the Nobel Prize committee agreed. Stephen Dubner sits down for a thousand-year conversation (including advice!) with the new Nobel laureate.   SOURCES: Joel Mokyr, economic historian at Northwestern University.   RESOURCES: Two Paths to Prosperity: Culture and Institutions in Europe and China, 1000–2000, by Avner Greif, Joel Mokyr, and, Guido Tabellini (2025). "The Outsize Role of Immigrants in US Innovation," by Shai Bernstein, Rebecca Diamond, Abhisit Jiranaphawiboon, Timothy McQuade, and Beatriz Pousada (NBER, 2023). A Culture of Growth: The Origins of the Modern Economy, by Joel Mokyr (2016). Why Nations Fail: The Origins of Power, Prosperity, and Poverty, by Daron Acemoglu and James Robinson (2012). "The Economics of Being Jewish," by Joel Mokyr (Critical Review, 2011). Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
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  • I am sometimes surprised at how quickly we humans habituate to progress.

  • We're given something wonderful and we immediately want more of it and complain that we don't get it quickly or cheaper.

  • How do you think about it?

  • Well, as an economic historian, I think it is my mission to tell people how good they have it.

  • The good old days may have been old, but they weren't good.

  • They were terrible.

  • Joel Mokir is a professor at Northwestern University who recently won the Nobel Prize in economics along with Philippe Aguillon and Peter Howitt.

  • Mokir was awarded the prize for having, quote,

  • identified the prerequisites for sustained growth through technological progress.

  • It is quite clear that progress is driven by a very small proportion of the population.

  • I would say something around maybe two, two and a half,

  • maybe three percent of the labor force are driving all the progress.

  • And what exactly do those two or three percent do?

  • These people change culture quite drastically.

  • Wait a minute.

  • Is Mokir saying that technological progress is driven by culture?

  • That is not the story a typical economist would tell us.

  • But as you will hear today, Mokir rarely sounds like a typical economist.

  • It's one of the great Unforced errors in history.

  • I mean, what we are doing is absurd.