America's War of Choice on Iran

美国对伊朗的自主选择之战

The Foreign Affairs Interview

2026-03-05

1 小时 5 分钟
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Over the weekend, U.S. and Israeli forces struck hundreds of sites across Iran and killed its supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. Large crowds of Iranians took to the streets, some to mourn, others to celebrate. The Islamic Republic has retaliated and launched strikes of its own across the Middle East.  Much about the joint U.S.-Israeli operation remains unclear—was it meant to eliminate Iran’s nuclear capabilities after failed negotiations? Was it meant to force regime change? With no path to de-escalation in sight, Washington may end up in a larger conflagration than it bargained for. In this two-part episode, Executive Editor Justin Vogt spoke with two experts to help make sense of the situation.  First, Nate Swanson, the director of the Iran Strategy Project at the Atlantic Council and a former Iran policy adviser to the Trump and Biden administrations. He was director for Iran at the National Security Council between 2022 and 2025 and he served on the Trump administration’s Iran negotiating team in the spring and summer of 2025. Vogt spoke with him on Wednesday, March 4 about the situation on the ground in Iran, Iran’s strategy in the wake of the U.S.-Israeli attacks, and how Iran policy gets made in the Trump administration.  Then, Richard Haass, the president emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations. Toward the end of his long career in government, Haass served as the director of policy planning in the State Department during the George W. Bush administration, at a time when the United States was carrying out a war aimed at regime change in Afghanistan and planning another such war in Iraq. Vogt spoke with Haass on the afternoon of Tuesday, March 3, about the history of regime change operations and how the current war on Iran fits into it. Both Swanson and Haass make clear that this is a watershed moment for the United States, Iran, and the Middle East more broadly. You can find sources, transcripts, and more episodes of The Foreign Affairs Interview at https://www.foreignaffairs.com/podcasts/foreign-affairs-interview.
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  • I'm Dan Kurtz-Phelan, and this is the Foreign Affairs Interview.

  • What I perceive to be happening is Iran is very comfortable engaging in a long war.

  • So, you know, the U.S.

  • is trying to put timeframes on this.

  • This is, you know, a four-week war, a five-week war, now it's an eight-week war.

  • I think Iran is comfortable dragging this out as long as needed.

  • The rhetoric of regime change is far outpacing the policy of regime change.

  • This is an administration that from the get-go, even before the intervention began in early January, this administration was talking on behalf of the Iranian opposition, encouraging them, making promises to them, threatening the regime.

  • None of that was implemented.

  • I'm Justin Vogt, executive editor of Foreign Affairs.

  • Dan is away this week.

  • Over the weekend, US and Israeli forces struck hundreds of sites across Iran.

  • and killed the country's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

  • Large crowds of Iranians took to the streets, some to mourn, others to celebrate.

  • The Islamic Republic has retaliated and launched strikes of its own across the Middle East.

  • Much about the joint U.S.-Israeli operation remains unclear.

  • Was it meant to eliminate Iran's nuclear capabilities in the wake of failed negotiations?

  • Was it meant to force regime change?

  • With no path to de-escalation in sight, Washington may end up in a larger conflagration than it bargained for.

  • In this two-part episode, I spoke with two experts to help us make sense of the situation.