Putin’s Cannon Fodder

普京的炮灰

The Foreign Affairs Interview

2023-11-02

34 分钟
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In Ukraine, where war with Russia grinds on, the dominant question has become: can one side outlast the other? This is especially true as both sides face another grueling winter.  One thing Russia has in ample supply is men. But how it treats its soldiers is having an effect on the battlefield, explains Dara Massicot, who has studied the Russian military for years, first at the U.S. Defense Department and later at RAND and the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.   Foreign Affairs Deputy Editor Kate Brannen sat down with her to discuss how the human dimension of this war provides clues about where it might be headed next.  You can find transcripts and more episodes of The Foreign Affairs Interview at https://www.foreignaffairs.com/podcasts/foreign-affairs-interview.
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  • I'm Dan Kurtz-Falen, and this is the Foreign Affairs Interview.

  • At this point in the war, this is like survival mode.

  • You know, this is existential, and we're going to grab bodies off the street.

  • We're going to give them a few weeks of training,

  • maybe a few months in some cases, and then we're going to throw them in.

  • In Ukraine, as war with Russia grinds on, one question has become decisive.

  • Which side will outlast the other?

  • especially as both face another grueling winter.

  • One thing Russia has in ample supply is men.

  • But how Russia treats its soldiers is having an impact on the battlefield, argues Dara Masiko.

  • Dara has studied the Russian military for years, first for the U.S.

  • Defense Department, and later at Rand in the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

  • My colleague Kate Brannon sat down with her to discuss how the human dimension of this war provides clues about where it might be headed next.

  • Dara, thank you so much for joining us today.

  • Thanks for having me.

  • As we head into winter,

  • the central question driving the war in Ukraine seems to be how long can each side sustain this war,

  • or does one side have the ability to outlast the other?

  • And to dig into this, I thought we should start with what's going on today on the battlefield.

  • What can you tell us about the Ukrainian counteroffensive?