I'm Dan Kurtz-Valen and this is the Foreign Affairs Interview.
It is irresponsible for us to send our military, our people,
to the battlefield without defining a political goal which is the description of the day later.
There's no end in sight to Israel's war against Hamas and Gaza.
But even as fighting rages, questions abound about what happens when it finally stops.
Will Hamas survive if not as an organization than as an ideology?
What type of leadership will be needed on both sides to broker a lasting peace?
To explore these questions, I spoke to Ami Ayalon.
Ayalon began his military service in 1963 and went on to lead Israel's navy and then the Shin Bet,
its internal security service.
The task for Israel, he argues,
is not just addressing the security failures that preceded October 7.
Even more important is offering a political future that both Israelis and Palestinians will support.
Thanks so much for joining me today and for the piece you wrote for Foreign Affairs a few weeks ago,
which was called Why Netanyahu Must Go.
I should start by noting for listeners that we're having this conversation on Wednesday,
November 15th,
since it's likely that the situation on the ground in Gaza will change quite a bit in the coming days.
But I want to start by asking you about the Israeli theory of victory in this current military offensive.
My sense is that outside observers, even those quite sympathetic to Israeli objectives,