The World That Tariffs Will Make

关税将铸就的世界

The Foreign Affairs Interview

2025-09-11

52 分钟
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Donald Trump has been railing against the global economic order from the start of his political career. But in his second term as president, he has turned that critique into blistering action. In just five months, the trade war that started with his April tariffs has completely reshaped the global economy—and struck at the very heart of the trade system that emerged after the end of the Cold War. To Michael Froman, the diagnosis is terminal. Froman, now the president of the Council on Foreign Relations, which publishes Foreign Affairs, served as the U.S. trade representative in the Obama administration. “Even if pieces of the old order manage to survive,” he writes in the new issue of Foreign Affairs, “the damage is done: there is no going back.” Trump’s “America first” trade policy, and China’s analogous strategy, herald a new order of protectionism, unilateralism, and mercantilism. Froman warns that economic anarchy could ensue. But as he sees it, any hope of resurrecting the corpse of the old order is delusional. “Nostalgia,” he argues, “is not a strategy.” Rather, the task at hand is to build a new “global economy shaped by rules even without a global rules-based system.” You can find sources, transcripts, and more episodes of The Foreign Affairs Interview at https://www.foreignaffairs.com/podcasts/foreign-affairs-interview.
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  • I'm Dan Kurtz-Valen, and this is the Foreign Affairs Interview.

  • I think the natural inclination is to look back with nostalgia and say, okay,

  • when this administration's over, we're going to go back to the way things were before.

  • I don't think that's going to happen.

  • I think there's no going back.

  • The toothpaste is out of the tube.

  • And I think what we need to do is think through, okay,

  • what are the elements of the old system that should be preserved in some other form?

  • Where do we need to reform the system.

  • And where do we need to come up with new rules or new mechanisms altogether to take into account the lessons of the last 80 years and the lessons of this grand experiment?

  • Donald Trump has been railing against the global economic order from the start of his political career.

  • But in his second term as president, he has turned that critique into blistering action.

  • In just five months,

  • the trade war that started with his April tariffs has completely reshaped the global economy.

  • and struck at the very heart of the trade system that emerged after the end of the Cold War.

  • To Michael Froman, the diagnosis is terminal.

  • Froman, now the president of the Council on Foreign Relations,

  • which publishes foreign affairs, served as US trade representative in the Obama administration.

  • Even if pieces of the old order managed to survive,

  • he writes the new issue of foreign affairs, the damage is done.