Welcome to The World in 10.
In an increasingly uncertain world, this is The Times' daily podcast dedicated to global security.
With me, Toby Gillis, joined today by Alex Dibble.
Donald Trump has told Iran he'll decide over the next two weeks whether to join Israel in its military campaign aimed at destroying Iran's nuclear program.
When we spoke to Lina Khatib on Wednesday, she told us she believes the regime in Iran,
led by Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei,
is taking its last breaths whether the U.S. becomes involved militarily or not.
The Times correspondent Richard Spencer has long covered Iran and reported on other efforts to bring about regime change elsewhere in the region.
He's our guest today.
Richard, we often hear the term regime change thrown around.
Does that just mean getting rid of the Supreme Leader in Iran?
You know, I think this is the biggest question that's never asked.
People talk very glibly about regime change.
And it's just one of those phrases that's latched into the public consciousness,
particularly since, obviously,
the Iraq war, where the designated...
aim of the invasion of 2003 was to get rid of the regime of Saddam Hussein.
And so everyone just says, oh, well, that's what regime change is.
But it's just a phrase.
And different countries have different systems of government,