Very nice to meet you.
Hi Joe.
Very nice to meet you, too so First of all, what got you interested in mind control?
Well,
so this is a question I've been asking myself just
because I find myself after two and a half decades of having this topic that initially seemed pretty niche and unusual and not many people were interested or many people were skeptical about it but I thought it seemed
like it embodied some of the more extreme
if you could look at the way people are shaped by their environments and by there,
you know,
what parts of your life are determined by you and what parts are determined by outside forces that mind control would be a perfect area to investigate that
because it's so extreme,
especially if you looked at particular cases.
So I
because I'd done my dissertation at UC Berkeley on the history of behavioral engineering and how,
you know,
these kind of models for creating a society of control and encouragement in various ways,
like a behaviorist kind of dream.
And it seemed like the next step was to look at something like brainwashing or mind control.
When you first started studying it, was it a less public sort of curiosity?
Because now a lot of people are very much interested.