2025-05-07
40 分钟Welcome to Intelligence Squared.
I'm producer Mia Sorrenti.
Today I'm here with Head of Programming Connor Boyle.
Conor, what have we got coming up on today's episode?
Well, we've got a real treat for our audience today with Rutger Bregman returning to the podcast.
Many of you will know him for his sort of viral takedown of the elites at Davos when he basically scolded the audience
for talking about philanthropy and all the ways billionaires can help society,
conveniently leaving out the kind of big thing, which is tax.
And he had this sort of viral clip on social media in which he said,
I feel like I'm at a firefighter's con.
and we're not allowed to talk about water.
That was sort of his big announcement to the world stage.
But he's been writing these brilliant books.
People may be aware of Utopia for Realists was his first one, then Humankind,
which was this sort of brilliant counterfactual analysis of human nature where instead of people thinking the Lord of the Flies type thing,
if we're all left on an island, we'll all become savages and start killing each other.
Actually, when a plane really crashed.
and people were left stranded they all tried to help each other so kind of looking at sort of some stereotypes and looking to you know inject a bit of positivity about humans yeah absolutely and his new book moral ambition is kind of a natural follow-up to that theme right in that it's very optimistic but it's kind of focused on practical things we can do to actually improve the world as opposed to being mired in pessimism and feeling stuck which i'm sure many of us do feel.
So what does Rookter go into in moral ambition and what's his kind of takeaways there?
Yeah, well, actually, the first time I ever heard of Rooker Bregman,