Frontline special - former tank commander Hamish de Bretton Gordon

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• 00:02

  Welcome to the World in 10, the Times of London's daily podcast dedicated to global security.

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  I'm Alex Dibble and I executive produce the podcast.

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  The World in 10 is partnered with Frontline, the interview series from Times Radio available on YouTube,

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  which has expert analysis of the world's conflicts.

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  At the weekend, we bring you frontline interviews in full.

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  Here's one of Frontline's recent interviews.

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  I hope you find it interesting.

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  Hello and welcome to Frontline.

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  I'm Nuri Sykes and today we are joined by former tank commander Hamish de Breton Gordon in the back of an M113 armoured personnel carrier.

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  That's because we are at the Tank Museum in Bovington at the opening of their Ukraine exhibition.

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  Hamish, thank you very much for joining us today.

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  Well, thanks very much.

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  This is the museum of my regiment, so it's great to be here.

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  Hamish, the M113 is neither a Russian nor Ukrainian vehicle.

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  It's American and that reflects a wider adoption of Western style fighting by Ukraine, doesn't it?

• 01:08

  Well, certainly Western style vehicles.

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  So the M113 armoured personnel carrier in here, you would have a section of infantry.

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  We see some of the weapons that they have here.

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  And of course, we'll talk about some of the other Western vehicles.

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  But absolutely, the Western way of fighting, what we call combined arms manoeuvre.

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