Trump’s cyber purge a "priceless gift” to US enemies

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• 00:02

  Welcome to The World in Ten.

• 00:04

  In an increasingly uncertain world, this is The Times' daily podcast dedicated to global security.

• 00:10

  To date with me, Tom Noonan and Alex Dibble.

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  While the world watches Donald Trump's dramatic tariff policies and their twists and turns,

• 00:18

  something that's gone relatively under the radar is his shake-up of the National Security Council,

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  and especially U.S. cybersecurity.

• 00:25

  Last week, he fired General Timothy Hawke as head of the National Security Agency and head of U.S. Cyber Command,

• 00:32

  along with his deputy.

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  The president was reportedly pushed to fire them by Laura Loomer,

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  who seemed by many to be a far right conspiracy theorist who's claimed 9-11 was an inside job.

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  It's thought that she argued they weren't sufficiently loyal to him.

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  So, has the move exposed the U.S., and therefore the West, to fresh dangers?

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  Our guest today is Dr Tim Stevens,

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  who's from the War Studies Department at King's College London and is head of the university's Cyber Security Research Group.

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  Tim, the Democratic Senator Jack Reed says getting rid of Timothy Hawke is a priceless gift to the U.S.'s enemies.

• 01:09

  Do you think they'll be laughing in the Kremlin or in Beijing at this?

• 01:14

  I'm not sure they'll be laughing as a result of this precise incident in which General Tim Hawke was fired as head of,

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  as you say, NSA and U.S. Cyber Command.

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  I think what they may be looking at is a slight disarray in the U.S. cybersecurity posture, both in the defensive side.

• 01:34

  We've seen a lot of toing and froing from the cybersecurity and infrastructure security agency, CISA,

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