The World in 2025 with Robert Kaplan: Finding A Way Through Permanent Crisis (Part One)

2025年的世界:罗伯特·卡普兰访谈:在永久危机中寻找出路(第一部分)

Intelligence Squared

2025-04-07

33 分钟
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We are entering a new era of global instability. The world is facing an era of war, climate change, great power rivalry and unprecedented technological advancement. In April 2025, geopolitical expert and bestselling author Robert Kaplan came to Intelligence Squared to analyse where the world is heading in 2025 and beyond. Drawing from the themes of his new book Waste Land, he argued that history can help guide us through a world that is changing at an unprecedented pace. Kaplan drew comparisons between today’s challenges and the Weimar Republic, the post-World War I democratic German government that arguably paved the way for Nazism in the 1930s. Just as in Weimar, which faced crises inextricably bound up with global systems, the singular dilemmas of the twenty-first century—pandemic disease, recession, mass migration, the destabilizing effects of large-scale democracy and great power conflicts, and the intimate bonds created by technology—mean that every national disaster has the potential to become a global crisis, too. According to Kaplan, solutions lie in prioritising order in governing systems, and he will argue that stability and historic liberalism rather than mass democracy will save global populations from a chaotic future. ---- This is the first instalment of a two-part episode. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full ad free conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events  ...  Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series … Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. … Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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  • Good evening.

  • Welcome to the Intelligent Squared event.

  • I am Alec Russell from the FT,

  • and as I was walking over here from the FT,

  • as all my colleagues were preparing for a long night of covering tariffs,

  • I was thinking, Robert,

  • that there couldn't really be a more appropriate evening yet this year

  • than Trump's Liberation Day to be talking about a world in crisis.

  • I'm particularly delighted to introduce our guest, our speaker tonight, Robert Kaplan,

  • because I've been carrying his books around with me as a foreign correspondent for over 30 years,

  • actually, and as I may explain later,

  • Robert, there was one time when I carried one of your books around, and I thought, he's wrong,

  • he's wrong, he's wrong, and then a few years later I realized he's right.

  • And for those of you who haven't yet read his work,

  • Robert is a former foreign correspondent, a claimed essayist, commentator, and author.

  • He's written a slew of highly regarded books on geopolitics that help to explain the world.

  • They include Bulkin Ghosts in the 90s, which was the first of your books that I read,

  • The Coming Anarchy, The Revenge of Geography.

  • I think it's fair to say, Robert, they tend, possibly rightly,

  • to a bleak view of humanity's role in running the world and our ability to mess things up.