Welcome to The World in Ten.
In an increasingly uncertain world, this is The Times' daily podcast dedicated to global security.
Today with me, Alex Stibble and Stuart Willey.
Donald Trump is angry.
In fact, he says he's very angry.
His quest to end the war in Ukraine has hit a speed bump, as Vladimir Putin stalls on a ceasefire.
In response, the U.S. president has made his strongest threats yet against Russia,
now warning of secondary tariffs on oil exports.
These tariffs wouldn't just target Russia,
but would also penalise countries still purchasing Russian oil, including major players like China and India.
Our guest today is Emily Ferris, a Russia specialist at the defence think tank, Rusi.
Emily, how will Putin and the Kremlin be considering the economic threats that Donald Trump is making here?
Well, they probably should take those rather seriously.
It seems that Trump has actually done that on other countries,
and it's perfectly possible that he would do that to Russia as well.
But one thing that really illustrates is how quickly that relationship can kind of turn on a dime.
So if at the beginning we're saying, well, look how well the Americans and the Russians are cozying up to each other,
suddenly when, if you're dealing with such a volatile personality in Trump,
that can change so quickly,
which is why I can very easily foresee a situation in which Russian and American interests suddenly completely diverge,