Has America Abandoned Ukraine? With Michael McFaul

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  Has America abandoned Ukraine?

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  Hello, I'm Head of Programming and host Conor Boyle,

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  and welcome to Intelligence Squared, the podcast about ideas that matter.

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  In each episode, we speak to some of the world's most interesting thinkers, not simply about what they've written

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  or created, but about the ideas that drive their work and why they matter now.

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  In this episode, I'm speaking to Michael McFaul, academic and diplomat

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  who served as the United States Ambassador to Russia from 2012 to 2014, and is now a professor at Stanford University.

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  He's the author of books including The Excellent, From Cold War to Hot Peace, An American Ambassador in Putin's Russia,

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  and most recently Autocrats vs. Democrats, China, Russia, America and the New Global Disorder.

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  Today, we're going to be exploring the idea of whether America in 2026 still aspires

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  to uphold democracy around the world, whether Trump has irreparably damaged American leadership,

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  and what his increasingly pro-Putin stance means for the future of Ukraine.

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  Ambassador McFall, welcome to Intelligence Squared.

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  Thanks for having me.

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  So in recent days, we've seen, obviously, Trump escalate his pro-Putin statements.

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  We've seen this diesel deal.

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  We've seen this, you know, quote, frankly.

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  Russia has been fine on Ukraine.

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  Just to start things off, what has been your emotional reaction

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  or your feeling hearing the president side so clearly with Russia against Ukraine?

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